eLua open hardware

[jbsnyder]

I think the main downside is that it needs supporting hardware to even  
be programmed.  Sure, its not hard as a hobbyist to make a supporting  
board, but I really like how with systems like Arduino all I need to  
do is plug a USB cable into it and I can load code on.  I don't need  
any extra hardware, I don't have to solder anything or wire anything  
up.  Any wiring or soldering that you do is then for experimentation  
and adding functionality to your project rather than just trying to  
get it to talk to your computer.

I think this could also cut down on having to deal with  
troubleshooting for less experienced users that might get a lot of  
benefit out of an environment like eLua.  The quicker you can start  
programming, I think, the better :-)

-jsnyder


On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:12 PM, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Great to hear that Dean !
>    In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that  
> a stamp is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and  
> prototypers if it does not come with a base board to plug it in.
>
> That depends very much on the context. Many hobbyists (me included)  
> would be perfectly happy with the stamp (and maybe a quickly  
> prototyped support board) in many situations, without feeling the  
> needing for something more complex (like a motherboard for the stamp).
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:01, Dean Hall <dwhall256 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Regarding 8-bit, I recommend avoiding that option.  Yes, I'm
> shamelessly protecting PyMite's turf <smiley>.  Taking Lua to small
> RAM would be a challenging problem, but ultimately frustrating: the
> harder you work to make it fit in smaller RAM, the less capabilities
> you are allowing!  This is a warning that comes from experience.
>
> Regarding hardware, I have a PCB that is currently being fabbed.  When
> I get this design working, I plan to make it open (schematics and
> layout in EAGLE).  It is small (51mm x 66mm) (2" x 2.6"), holds the
> range of Atmel AT32UC3A1*** (TQFP100) and makes all pins available,
> except PC4,5 which are connected to a 12 MHz xtal.  The pins are
> available through 4 2x10 0.1" standard headers.  Other features: a
> reset button, JTAG port and USB mini-B.  The board is powered by USB
> or by a separate supply coming in through one of the 4 main connector
> headers.  This board is meant to be stacked onto a carrier board of
> your own design to provide the features you want.
>
> I chose the AT32UC3A1*** because it is the natural upgrade path of
> AVR, it has up to 64 KB ram and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is available in-
> stock at Digikey and  Mouser (the two most popular US suppliers that
> provide small quantity).
>
> !!Dean
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: [phone]

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/2b25ba8d/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 194 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
Url : https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/2b25ba8d/attachment.pgp 

[Dean Hall]

Consider a 2-tier system:

Experimental tier: eLua+<your-board-here> runs eLua and has support  
for some but not all of eLua's libs.  Software may have known defects.
Approved tier: eLua+Stamp (and others) run eLua and support the  
approved list of eLua's libs.  Software is not approved until major  
known defects are resolved.

This way, the eLua+Stamp users (rookies, mostly) don't have to deal  
with bugs and have an enjoyable experience even if it doesn't offer,  
for example, ethernet.  And those who use an experimental board know  
what they're getting into.

!!Dean


On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:33 , Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

>
> > I think a variety of eLua boards would be a good thing.
>
> Definitely! Although this would also add some problems (like the  
> incompatibilities between different stamps), having the user able to  
> make an actual choice would be a Good Thing.
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Great to hear that Dean !
>    In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that  
> a stamp is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and  
> prototypers if it does not come with a base board to plug it in.
>    It usually raises the cost (compared to evaluation/demo kits) but  
> it has the advantage that the stamp can later be used in a final  
> product.
>    The thing seems to be: "avoid forcing final users to build PCBs".  
> They (here) are not too much against of adding hardware to a board  
> (breadboard areas, prototyping standard boards, ....) but to design  
> and build modern PCBs has become a barrier for many.
>
> Best
> Dado
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

[Joern Kaipf]

Hi everyone,

I'm quite new to Lua and the list. Your discussion about an open
hardwareplatform is very interesting. I currently waiting for my new
STM32 PCB. If the design works I want to try to get Lua running on it.

The board is assembled with the biggest STM32 that is available and has
the option to place two external SRAM memories, further features are:

- Ethernet (DM9000A)
- IRDA
- RS485
- CAN
- USB
- SD Card (SDIO)
- 2 UARTS
- dataflash
- EEPROM
- keyboard
- JTAG + tracing connetor
- some ADC channels

I'll publish the schematic and layout. If someone is interested I'll do
this in the next days.

When the next generation of Luminary Micro chip will be available, I
many also do a board with this cortex, because they will have an
external SDRAM interface ;)

Kind regrds,
Joern



Dean Hall write:

> Regarding hardware, I have a PCB that is currently being fabbed.  When  
> I get this design working, I plan to make it open (schematics and  
> layout in EAGLE).  It is small (51mm x 66mm) (2" x 2.6"), holds the  
> range of Atmel AT32UC3A1*** (TQFP100) and makes all pins available,  
> except PC4,5 which are connected to a 12 MHz xtal.  The pins are  
> available through 4 2x10 0.1" standard headers.  Other features: a  
> reset button, JTAG port and USB mini-B.  The board is powered by USB  
> or by a separate supply coming in through one of the 4 main connector  
> headers.  This board is meant to be stacked onto a carrier board of  
> your own design to provide the features you want.
>
> I chose the AT32UC3A1*** because it is the natural upgrade path of  
> AVR, it has up to 64 KB ram and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is available in-
> stock at Digikey and  Mouser (the two most popular US suppliers that  
> provide small quantity).
>
> !!Dean
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>

[Alex Babkin]

Guys, keep in mind that the stm32 Circle 1,2 are subsidized kits, i.e it
probably costs them close to or more than $50 to produce them. Besides
advertisement for ST, the kit locks you to having to use the evaluation dev
software that it comes with, hoping that you will eventually pay for the
full version of the software. I presume that is the reason for the rs232
hassle that Bogdan experienced with this kit. They took an extra mile to
make it harder for a hacker to go around the proprietary demo dev soft.
They are no fools to just give money away by making it super-cheap ;-)
I don't own these kits, so i may be wrong on some accounts, but thats the
impression i got from my research on the kits

the stm32 stamp on the other hand does look good and i agree that it could
use a USB jack
futurlec also sells a stm32 dev board for $40 that does have USB and other
things like SD card slot

WORD OF CAUTION: Make it extra clear to futurlec people that you want the
"64K ram /512K" flash version (before they send you the 20K/128K one)

Alex

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:48 PM, James Snyder <jbsnyder at fanplastic.org>wrote:

> That is an amazing value.
>
> It's also got 16 adc channels (12 bit!), 2 DACs and USB.
>
> Unfortunately it doesn't have ethernet, but, wow.  I think I'll order a few
> of these :-)
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Dean Hall wrote:
>
> Wow, that is one heckuva value (an ARM with legs that doesn't cost an
> arm and a leg!).  The chip alone is $13 at digikey.  I am very tempted.
>
> !!Dean
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:25 , Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
>
> I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to
>
> use because if you need an UART you'll need to either:
>
>
> 1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard
>
> to work with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can
>
> install something useful there.
>
> 2. implement it via USB with CDC :)
>
>
> Also, I just ordered this:
>
>
> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
>
>
> Great piece of hardware at $25!
>
>
> Best,
>
> Bogdan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk>
>
> wrote:
>
> Anyone spotted this:
>
>
>
> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>
>
>
> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including
>
> Romania and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM
>
> microcontroller, so should run eLua comfortably!
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Elua-dev mailing list
>
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Elua-dev mailing list
>
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> --
> James Snyder
> Biomedical Engineering
> Northwestern University
> jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
> http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
> ph: [phone]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/7cb9a7d7/attachment-0001.html 

[Dado Sutter]

Hello Joern,

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 18:02, Joern Kaipf <lists at joernline.de> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm quite new to Lua and the list. Your discussion about an open
> hardwareplatform is very interesting. I currently waiting for my new
> STM32 PCB. If the design works I want to try to get Lua running on it.


Great ! If your board takes just a couple weeks more to arrive, you'll be
able to run our next version of eLua, v0.6, that adds (among other things)
support for STM32. It is already working on trunk if you need.

> The board is assembled with the biggest STM32 that is available and has
> the option to place two external SRAM memories, further features are:
>
> - Ethernet (DM9000A)
> - IRDA
> - RS485
> - CAN
> - USB
> - SD Card (SDIO)
> - 2 UARTS
> - dataflash
> - EEPROM
> - keyboard
> - JTAG + tracing connetor
> - some ADC channels

You'll be able to test a lot of modules for us ! :)


> I'll publish the schematic and layout. If someone is interested I'll do
> this in the next days.


We surelly are. (at least I am :)
Thanks !

When the next generation of Luminary Micro chip will be available, I
> many also do a board with this cortex, because they will have an
> external SDRAM interface ;)


Can't wait ! :)


> Kind regrds,
> Joern


Best
Dado

>
>
>
>
> Dean Hall write:
>
> > Regarding hardware, I have a PCB that is currently being fabbed.  When
> > I get this design working, I plan to make it open (schematics and
> > layout in EAGLE).  It is small (51mm x 66mm) (2" x 2.6"), holds the
> > range of Atmel AT32UC3A1*** (TQFP100) and makes all pins available,
> > except PC4,5 which are connected to a 12 MHz xtal.  The pins are
> > available through 4 2x10 0.1" standard headers.  Other features: a
> > reset button, JTAG port and USB mini-B.  The board is powered by USB
> > or by a separate supply coming in through one of the 4 main connector
> > headers.  This board is meant to be stacked onto a carrier board of
> > your own design to provide the features you want.
> >
> > I chose the AT32UC3A1*** because it is the natural upgrade path of
> > AVR, it has up to 64 KB ram and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is available in-
> > stock at Digikey and  Mouser (the two most popular US suppliers that
> > provide small quantity).
> >
> > !!Dean
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elua-dev mailing list
> > Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/dad8116c/attachment.html 

[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Joern Kaipf <lists at joernline.de> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm quite new to Lua and the list. Your discussion about an open
> hardwareplatform is very interesting. I currently waiting for my new
> STM32 PCB. If the design works I want to try to get Lua running on it.
>
> The board is assembled with the biggest STM32 that is available and has
> the option to place two external SRAM memories, further features are:
>
> - Ethernet (DM9000A)
> - IRDA
> - RS485
> - CAN
> - USB
> - SD Card (SDIO)
> - 2 UARTS
> - dataflash
> - EEPROM
> - keyboard
> - JTAG + tracing connetor
> - some ADC channels

WOW! Congrats, that's quite a board you have there!


I'll publish the schematic and layout. If someone is interested I'll do
> this in the next days.


Sure, I think a lot of people would be interested in that, not only from
this list.

When the next generation of Luminary Micro chip will be available, I
> many also do a board with this cortex, because they will have an
> external SDRAM interface ;)


SDRAM ?! This keeps getting better and better. I never even dared to think
about SDRAM, I was thinking SRAM, or PSRAM at best. I can't wait for these
chips! If they keep the rest of the peripherals as they are today, they'll
make an excellent stamp :)

Best,
Bogdan

>
>
> Kind regrds,
> Joern
>
>
>
> Dean Hall write:
>
> > Regarding hardware, I have a PCB that is currently being fabbed.  When
> > I get this design working, I plan to make it open (schematics and
> > layout in EAGLE).  It is small (51mm x 66mm) (2" x 2.6"), holds the
> > range of Atmel AT32UC3A1*** (TQFP100) and makes all pins available,
> > except PC4,5 which are connected to a 12 MHz xtal.  The pins are
> > available through 4 2x10 0.1" standard headers.  Other features: a
> > reset button, JTAG port and USB mini-B.  The board is powered by USB
> > or by a separate supply coming in through one of the 4 main connector
> > headers.  This board is meant to be stacked onto a carrier board of
> > your own design to provide the features you want.
> >
> > I chose the AT32UC3A1*** because it is the natural upgrade path of
> > AVR, it has up to 64 KB ram and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is available in-
> > stock at Digikey and  Mouser (the two most popular US suppliers that
> > provide small quantity).
> >
> > !!Dean
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elua-dev mailing list
> > Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/e86d0011/attachment.html 

[Joern Kaipf]

Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

> Sure, I think a lot of people would be interested in that, not only from
> this list.

The files are available at my server:
http://www.joernonline.de/contrexx2/cms/index.php?section=media1&path=/contrexx2/cms/media/archive1/stm32_eval/

Comments are welcome and will be considered for the next revision.

> SDRAM ?! This keeps getting better and better. I never even dared to
> think about SDRAM, I was thinking SRAM, or PSRAM at best. I can't wait
> for these chips! If they keep the rest of the peripherals as they are
> today, they'll make an excellent stamp :)

Yes, SDRAM ;) The chip was annonced for Q1/09 last year at the
Electronica in Munich. But they changed something in the meantime and so
the release date was delayed. I hope that I get more information from
Luminary at the Embedded World in three weeks.

Regards,
Joern

[Tony-12]

SDRAM isn't too hard - we (my brother & I) used it on our AT91RM9200
prototype board, and didn't have any problems.

In the MPU world (ARM92x, ARM11, Cortex-A8), everyone supports SDRAM, some
also support DDR.

In the ARM7 world, it's not common - off the top of my head I can list the
LPC24xx series (32-bit!), LPC28xx series, and LH7952x.

SDRAM on a Cortex M3 would be a first.

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Bogdan Marinescu <
bogdan.marinescu at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Joern Kaipf <lists at joernline.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm quite new to Lua and the list. Your discussion about an open
>> hardwareplatform is very interesting. I currently waiting for my new
>> STM32 PCB. If the design works I want to try to get Lua running on it.
>>
>> The board is assembled with the biggest STM32 that is available and has
>> the option to place two external SRAM memories, further features are:
>>
>> - Ethernet (DM9000A)
>> - IRDA
>> - RS485
>> - CAN
>> - USB
>> - SD Card (SDIO)
>> - 2 UARTS
>> - dataflash
>> - EEPROM
>> - keyboard
>> - JTAG + tracing connetor
>> - some ADC channels
>
>
> WOW! Congrats, that's quite a board you have there!
>
>
> I'll publish the schematic and layout. If someone is interested I'll do
>> this in the next days.
>
>
> Sure, I think a lot of people would be interested in that, not only from
> this list.
>
> When the next generation of Luminary Micro chip will be available, I
>> many also do a board with this cortex, because they will have an
>> external SDRAM interface ;)
>
>
> SDRAM ?! This keeps getting better and better. I never even dared to think
> about SDRAM, I was thinking SRAM, or PSRAM at best. I can't wait for these
> chips! If they keep the rest of the peripherals as they are today, they'll
> make an excellent stamp :)
>
>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/95c3ad12/attachment-0001.html 

[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Joern Kaipf <lists at joernline.de> wrote:

> Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
>
> > Sure, I think a lot of people would be interested in that, not only from
> > this list.
>
> The files are available at my server:
>
> http://www.joernonline.de/contrexx2/cms/index.php?section=media1&path=/contrexx2/cms/media/archive1/stm32_eval/


Thanks! But I think that the schematic PDF only exports the first sheet of
the design.

>
>
> Comments are welcome and will be considered for the next revision.
>
> > SDRAM ?! This keeps getting better and better. I never even dared to
> > think about SDRAM, I was thinking SRAM, or PSRAM at best. I can't wait
> > for these chips! If they keep the rest of the peripherals as they are
> > today, they'll make an excellent stamp :)
>
> Yes, SDRAM ;) The chip was annonced for Q1/09 last year at the
> Electronica in Munich. But they changed something in the meantime and so
> the release date was delayed. I hope that I get more information from
> Luminary at the Embedded World in three weeks.

Excellent news! Thanks.

Best,
Bogdan


>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/3949f26a/attachment.html 

[Sam Roberts]

Could somebody post the Luminary license, or a link to it? I just saw
this, and its possible I misunderstand the issue, but here's my
thoughts.

I want to see how they define "viral". It could mean "you cannot use
this library to write a virus", or it could mean something else. If
they intend to say that their code cannot used be with GPL software, I
would say that either they have terrible lawyers, or for some reason
like that Linux can never run on their hardware.

As far as eLua goes, if I ever wanted to use GPL code, and there is a
lot of valuable GPL code around, for a project I was doing with eLua,
it would make it impossible for me.

Anyhow, I'm not one to tell people how to license code they write, but
if I'm working on a hobby project, and I cannot choose the GPL for my
eLua-based project, I would not use eLua. Just saying.

And I would NEVER buy hardware from a company that placed restrictions
on the licenses I could use for the software I write!

Sam

[Tony-12]

IANAL, but there shouldn't be a problem combining GPL and BSD in this
fashion:
1. Your project code is licensed under the GPL, and it is written in (or
calls or is called by)
2. eLua, which is BSD licensed

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Sam Roberts <vieuxtech at gmail.com> wrote:

> Could somebody post the Luminary license, or a link to it? I just saw
> this, and its possible I misunderstand the issue, but here's my
> thoughts.
>
> I want to see how they define "viral". It could mean "you cannot use
> this library to write a virus", or it could mean something else. If
> they intend to say that their code cannot used be with GPL software, I
> would say that either they have terrible lawyers, or for some reason
> like that Linux can never run on their hardware.
>
> As far as eLua goes, if I ever wanted to use GPL code, and there is a
> lot of valuable GPL code around, for a project I was doing with eLua,
> it would make it impossible for me.
>
> Anyhow, I'm not one to tell people how to license code they write, but
> if I'm working on a hobby project, and I cannot choose the GPL for my
> eLua-based project, I would not use eLua. Just saying.
>
> And I would NEVER buy hardware from a company that placed restrictions
> on the licenses I could use for the software I write!
>
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/f9a0dfb0/attachment.html 

[Joern Kaipf]

Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

> Thanks! But I think that the schematic PDF only exports the first sheet
> of the design.

Thanks for the hint, fixed. Now the whole six sheets are online.

[Jesus Alvarez]

The Luminary Software License Agreement is listed below. It does appear to
explicitly classify GPL software as "viral".

I have not seen the "viral" open source term in other license agreements and
believe it is inappropriate to say the least. Possibly the Luminary legal
staff didn't have a good understanding of what open source entails and made
the license overly restrictive. The wording on the license goes beyond their
stated intention to limit the use of the driver library to products using
their hardware. If that is their only restriction, why did they have to
demean a large group of open source software by classifying it as "viral"?

Regards,
Jesus Alvarez
----------
IMPORTANT. Read the following LMI Software License Agreement ("Agreement")
completely.

In summary, this license agreement allows you to use this software only on
Luminary Micro microcontrollers, on an as-is basis, with no warranties.

LUMINARY MICRO SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

This is a legal agreement between you (either as an individual or as an
authorized representative of your employer) and Luminary Micro, Inc.
("LMI").
It concerns your rights to use this file and any accompanying written
materials
(the "Software"). In consideration for LMI allowing you to access the
Software,
you are agreeing to be bound by the terms of this Agreement. If you do not
agree to all of the terms of this Agreement, do not download the Software.
If
you change your mind later, stop using the Software and delete all copies of
the Software in your possession or control. Any copies of the Software that
you
have already distributed, where permitted, and do not destroy will continue
to
be governed by this Agreement. Your prior use will also continue to be
governed
by this Agreement.

1. LICENSE GRANT. LMI grants to you, free of charge, the non-exclusive,
non-transferable rights solely and exclusively on or for LMI's
microcontroller
products: (1) to use and reproduce the Software, (2) to prepare derivative
works of the Software, (3) to distribute the Software and derivative works
thereof in source (human-readable) form and object (machine-readable) form,
(4)
to sublicense to others the right to use the distributed Software, (5)
permit
the Software and derivative works thereof to communicate with "viral open
source" software (as defined below); provided however that you may not
combine
the two separate and independent works to form a larger program, and (6)
combine the Software and derivative works thereof with "non-viral open
source"
software (as defined below). For the purposes of this Agreement, "viral open
source" software means open source software made available on license terms,
such as the GNU General Public License (GPL), that would alter the foregoing
license grant restrictions if combined with the Software. For the purposes
of
this Agreement, "non-viral open source" software means open source software
made available on license terms that would not alter the foregoing license
grant restrictions if combined with the Software. For the avoidance of any
doubt, the foregoing license grant does not permit you to combine the
Software
and derivative works thereof with "viral open-source" software in order to
sublicense to others the right to use the combined software product. If you
violate any of the terms or restrictions of this Agreement, LMI may
immediately
terminate this Agreement, and require that you stop using and delete all
copies
of the Software in your possession or control.

2. COPYRIGHT. The Software is licensed to you, not sold. LMI owns the
Software,
and United States copyright laws and international treaty provisions protect
the Software. Therefore, you must treat the Software like any other
copyrighted
material (e.g. a book or musical recording). You may not use or copy the
Software for any other purpose than what is described in this Agreement.
Except
as expressly provided herein, LMI does not grant to you any express or
implied
rights under any LMI or third-party patents, copyrights, trademarks, or
trade
secrets. Additionally, you must reproduce and apply any copyright or other
proprietary rights notices included on or embedded in the Software to any
copies or derivative works made thereof, in whole or in part, if any.

3. SUPPORT. LMI is NOT obligated to provide any support, upgrades or new
releases of the Software. If you wish, you may contact LMI and report
problems
and provide suggestions regarding the Software. LMI has no obligation
whatsoever to respond in any way to such a problem report or suggestion. LMI
may make changes to the Software at any time, without any obligation to
notify
or provide updated versions of the Software to you.

4. INDEMNITY. You agree to fully defend and indemnify LMI from any and all
claims, liabilities, and costs (including reasonable attorney's fees)
related
to (1) your use (including your sub-licensee's use, if permitted) of the
Software or (2) your violation of the terms and conditions of this
Agreement.

5. HIGH RISK ACTIVITIES. You acknowledge that the Software is not fault
tolerant and is not designed, manufactured or intended by LMI for
incorporation
into products intended for use or resale in on-line control equipment in
hazardous, dangerous to life or potentially life-threatening environments
requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear
facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic
control,
direct life support machines or weapons systems, in which the failure of
products could lead directly to death, personal injury or severe physical or
environmental damage ("High Risk Activities"). You specifically represent
and
warrant that you will not use the Software or any derivative work of the
Software for High Risk Activities.

6. PRODUCT LABELING. You are not authorized to use any LMI trademarks, brand
names, or logos.

7. COMPLIANCE WITH LAWS; EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You must use the Software in
accordance with all applicable U.S. laws, regulations and statutes. You
agree
that neither you nor your licensees (if any) intend to or will, directly or
indirectly, export or transmit the Software to any country in violation of
U.S.
export restrictions.

8. GOVERNMENT USE. Use of the Software and any corresponding documentation,
if
any, is provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication or disclosure by
the
Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c)(1)(ii)
of The Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS
252.227-7013 or subparagraphs (c)(l) and (2) of the Commercial Computer
Software--Restricted Rights at 48 CFR 52.227-19, as applicable. Manufacturer
is
Luminary Micro, Inc., 108 Wild Basin Road, Ste 350, Austin, Texas 78746.

9. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, LMI
EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTY FOR THE SOFTWARE. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED
"AS
IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING,
WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING
OUT
OF THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SOFTWARE, OR ANY SYSTEMS YOU DESIGN USING
THE
SOFTWARE (IF ANY). NOTHING IN THIS AGREEMENT MAY BE CONSTRUED AS A WARRANTY
OR
REPRESENTATION BY LMI THAT THE SOFTWARE OR ANY DERIVATIVE WORK DEVELOPED
WITH
OR INCORPORATING THE SOFTWARE WILL BE FREE FROM INFRINGEMENT OF THE
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS OF THIRD PARTIES.

10. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT WILL LMI BE LIABLE, WHETHER IN
CONTRACT, TORT, OR OTHERWISE, FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES
FOR
ANY LOSS OF USE, LOSS OF TIME, INCONVENIENCE, COMMERCIAL LOSS, OR LOST
PROFITS,
SAVINGS, OR REVENUES TO THE FULL EXTENT SUCH MAY BE DISCLAIMED BY LAW.

11. CHOICE OF LAW; VENUE; LIMITATIONS. You agree that the statutes and laws
of
the United States and the State of Texas, USA, without regard to conflicts
of
laws principles, will apply to all matters relating to this Agreement or the
Software, and you agree that any litigation will be subject to the exclusive
jurisdiction of the state or federal courts in Austin, Travis County, Texas,
USA. You agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any
claim
or cause of action arising out of or related to this Agreement or the
Software
must be filed within one (1) year after such claim or cause of action arose
or
be forever barred. YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOU WAIVE YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHT
TO
A TRIAL BY JURY IN ANY COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION FOR ANY ACTION,
DISPUTE,
CLAIM, OR CONTROVERSY CONCERNING THIS AGREEMENT OR FOR ANY ACTION, DISPUTE,
CLAIM, OR CONTROVERSY ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO ANY INTERPRETATION,
CONSTRUCTION, PERFORMANCE OR BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT.

12. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement
between
you and LMI regarding the subject matter of this Agreement, and supersedes
all
prior communications, negotiations, understandings, agreements or
representations, either written or oral, if any. This Agreement may only be
amended in written form, executed by you and LMI.

13. SEVERABILITY. If any provision of this Agreement is held for any reason
to
be invalid or unenforceable, then the remaining provisions of this Agreement
will be unimpaired and, unless a modification or replacement of the invalid
or
unenforceable provision is further held to deprive you or LMI of a material
benefit, in which case the Agreement will immediately terminate, the invalid
or
unenforceable provision will be replaced with a provision that is valid and
enforceable and that comes closest to the intention underlying the invalid
or
unenforceable provision.

14. NO WAIVER. The waiver by LMI of any breach of any provision of this
Agreement will not operate or be construed as a waiver of any other or a
subsequent breach of the same or a different provision.

[Yuri Takhteyev]

IANAL, but I don't believe this is not an "open source" license.

> In summary, this license agreement allows you to use this software only on
> Luminary Micro microcontrollers, on an as-is basis, with no warranties.

"only on Luminary Micro microcontrollers" means the license does not
qualify as either "free software" or "open source" (per the formal
definition of both). Therefore, the software cannot be mixed with GPL.
You don't need to read any further. The explicit prohibition against
mixing with "viral" open source given later in the license is
redundant. Again, IANAL.

- yuri

--
http://spu.tnik.org/

[Yuri Takhteyev]

> IANAL, but I don't believe this is not an "open source" license.

Sorry for the double negative. 'I don't believe this is an "open
source" license' is what I meant to say.

  - yuri

--
http://spu.tnik.org/

[Sam Roberts]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Yuri Takhteyev <yuri at sims.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> IANAL, but I don't believe this is not an "open source" license.
>
>> In summary, this license agreement allows you to use this software only on
>> Luminary Micro microcontrollers, on an as-is basis, with no warranties.
>
> "only on Luminary Micro microcontrollers" means the license does not
> qualify as either "free software" or "open source" (per the formal
> definition of both). Therefore, the software cannot be mixed with GPL.
> You don't need to read any further. The explicit prohibition against
> mixing with "viral" open source given later in the license is
> redundant. Again, IANAL.

Hi Yuri.

IANL, either!

But, absolutely, their code is not free.

Still, there are various ways for GPL programs to use non-free
libraries. All GPL programs running on windows, for example.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs

So, I ccould write a GPL program that uses the Luminary library, if I
added an exception for linking against their library. Well, I could,
except they disallow me.

However, I can't use any thirdparty GPL code with the Luminary
library, unless I get that code's copyright holder to write an
exception. So, if there was some cool GPL library I wanted to bind
into a lua module, and use with eLua on the Luminary devices, I could
not.

But eLua can be used on other devices, right, with non-Luminary hardware?

Sam

[Dado Sutter]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 21:17, Sam Roberts <vieuxtech at gmail.com> wrote:

> .....................



>
> But eLua can be used on other devices, right, with non-Luminary hardware?


http://www.eluaproject.net/en/Status


> Sam


Dado




>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/ebe01b5a/attachment.html 

[jbsnyder]

Right, but the luminary driver libraries are only actually compiled  
when one is targeting a Luminary board.  If we compile for, say, an  
LCP board, we're not using any Luminary code, AFAIK.

-jsnyder

On Feb 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Dado Sutter wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 21:17, Sam Roberts <vieuxtech at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> .....................
>
>
> But eLua can be used on other devices, right, with non-Luminary  
> hardware?
>
> http://www.eluaproject.net/en/Status
>
> Sam
>
> Dado
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: [phone]

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/5e70b351/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 194 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
Url : https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/5e70b351/attachment-0001.pgp 

[Asko Kauppi]

Has it been considered that this concept could be a USB "dongle" in  
itself?

- size of a dongle
- powered by the host USB (+ communicating through there)

If wanted to be run stand-alone, it would simply be attached to a USB  
power brick (Apple makes cute ones that come with iPod cable sets).

The Yoggie security dongle is presenting such a concept in practise:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/114193/yoggie-hails-security-on-a-stick.html

-asko


John Hind kirjoitti 12.2.2009 kello 13:30:

> Hi everyone! I am one of the aforementioned refugees from the Lua  
> list, in
> fact I think it was my posting that got everyone talking about
> microcontrollers and LuaChips again. I was about to launch my own  
> LuaChip
> project as a search had revealed nothing existing except the pbLua  
> port to
> the Lego controller, then Bogdan pointed me to the whole existing  
> world of
> eLua - not sure if eLua is especially low key or if my search  
> abilities need
> honing!
>
> I'd like to help in any way towards a target of getting something  
> like the
> Arduino infrastructure, but based on Lua, 32bit and network  
> capability,
> available to purchase. This means that for a few tens of dollars I  
> could buy
> a small pre-built card that I can plug into a PC (Windows, Linux and  
> perhaps
> OSX) via USB and immediately start programming in Lua. The processor  
> needs
> to come with the system pre-loaded, or at least an automatic boot  
> loader
> which installs it on first connection (and updates as necessary).  
> The card
> needs to have connections at breadboard pitch and/or feasible for hand
> soldering. Like the Arduino the whole thing including the hardware  
> designs
> should be open-source, but the real key is the availability of pre-
> built
> modules that can be used without a C tool chain, special development
> hardware or surface-mount assembly tools. Accepting that we have to  
> supply
> (or get partners to supply) a board-level product means we can  
> access the
> best chips for the job be they surface-mount or even BGA and it also  
> makes
> possible a modest revenue stream to help fund the project. (Self-
> publish
> manuals following the Lua.org pattern are another possibility here).
>
> As for a name, does the Portugese word "apara" work in this context?  
> Can it
> mean this kind of chip? It sounds well in English, evoking the word
> "apparatus", and it would be nice not to be saddled with an ugly
> mixed-language hybrid like "LuaChip". On the other hand, going all  
> English,
> "MoonChip" has a nice ring to it also.
>
> Just some initial thoughts to introduce myself!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

[Tony-12]

The USB dongle format is already popular for dev kits.  A few examples that
could run eLua:
LPC3250-Stick and LPC2478 Stick + accessories:
http://www.ehitex.de/artikel.php?xPD=113_115&kat_name=
STR9-Comstick (which IIRC Bogdan doesn't like)

The LPC3250-Stick looks like a good deal: 266MHz CPU with 32M SDRAM, 128M
flash

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Asko Kauppi <askok at dnainternet.net> wrote:

>
> Has it been considered that this concept could be a USB "dongle" in
> itself?
>
> - size of a dongle
> - powered by the host USB (+ communicating through there)
>
> If wanted to be run stand-alone, it would simply be attached to a USB
> power brick (Apple makes cute ones that come with iPod cable sets).
>
> The Yoggie security dongle is presenting such a concept in practise:
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/114193/yoggie-hails-security-on-a-stick.html
>
> -asko
>
>
> John Hind kirjoitti 12.2.2009 kello 13:30:
>
> > Hi everyone! I am one of the aforementioned refugees from the Lua
> > list, in
> > fact I think it was my posting that got everyone talking about
> > microcontrollers and LuaChips again. I was about to launch my own
> > LuaChip
> > project as a search had revealed nothing existing except the pbLua
> > port to
> > the Lego controller, then Bogdan pointed me to the whole existing
> > world of
> > eLua - not sure if eLua is especially low key or if my search
> > abilities need
> > honing!
> >
> > I'd like to help in any way towards a target of getting something
> > like the
> > Arduino infrastructure, but based on Lua, 32bit and network
> > capability,
> > available to purchase. This means that for a few tens of dollars I
> > could buy
> > a small pre-built card that I can plug into a PC (Windows, Linux and
> > perhaps
> > OSX) via USB and immediately start programming in Lua. The processor
> > needs
> > to come with the system pre-loaded, or at least an automatic boot
> > loader
> > which installs it on first connection (and updates as necessary).
> > The card
> > needs to have connections at breadboard pitch and/or feasible for hand
> > soldering. Like the Arduino the whole thing including the hardware
> > designs
> > should be open-source, but the real key is the availability of pre-
> > built
> > modules that can be used without a C tool chain, special development
> > hardware or surface-mount assembly tools. Accepting that we have to
> > supply
> > (or get partners to supply) a board-level product means we can
> > access the
> > best chips for the job be they surface-mount or even BGA and it also
> > makes
> > possible a modest revenue stream to help fund the project. (Self-
> > publish
> > manuals following the Lua.org pattern are another possibility here).
> >
> > As for a name, does the Portugese word "apara" work in this context?
> > Can it
> > mean this kind of chip? It sounds well in English, evoking the word
> > "apparatus", and it would be nice not to be saddled with an ugly
> > mixed-language hybrid like "LuaChip". On the other hand, going all
> > English,
> > "MoonChip" has a nice ring to it also.
> >
> > Just some initial thoughts to introduce myself!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elua-dev mailing list
> > Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/elua-dev/attachments/20090212/fe4d3323/attachment.html