eLua open hardware

[BogdanM]

I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to use
because if you need an UART you'll need to either:

1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard to work
with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can install
something useful there.
2. implement it via USB with CDC :)

Also, I just ordered this:

http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml

Great piece of hardware at $25!

Best,
Bogdan

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:

>  Anyone spotted this:
>
>
>
> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>
>
>
> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
> Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
> eLua comfortably!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[BogdanM]

>
>  However. Might there be scope for playing with the Lua internals to
> reduce RAM requirements (to tens of K rather than individual bytes though!)?
> I?m thinking of a facility to put objects like library functions, tables and
> strings into Flash memory rather than RAM.
>

We already did this, search for LTR (Lua Tiny RAM) patch on the list
archives. And I have ideas to improve it even further. I agree that this is
the way to do, not some crippled, stripped-down-to-the-extreme interpreter.
But if I'll ever have time, I'll try the crippled interpreter stuff anyway
:) Just for the fun of it.

Best,
Bogdan

>
>
> *From:* elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:
> elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Bogdan Marinescu
> *Sent:* 12 February 2009 11:55
> *To:* eLua Users and Development List
> *Subject:* Re: [eLua-dev] eLua open hardware
>
>
>
>
>
> I would not be interested in a crippled 8/16 bit Lua.
>
>
> I think it would make an interesting exercise. Not as part of eLua itself,
> but as a different project. More of an exercise in running Lua on crippled
> hardware :)
>
>
> It easily becomes a completely separate (sub)language, and
> I would see our efforts be best placed within the
> "constraints" of modern, full Lua.
>
>
> This is the idea of eLua, and will remain so.
>
>
> The approach of generating C or assembly language based on
> a Lua script is however a decent one. Lua is a
> magnificient preprocessing language, imho.  I would i.e.
> LOVE to design VHDL's using Lua as the description
> language (now, that's constraints, isn't it?). :)
>
>
> Ah, I'd _love_ to use eLua as a hardware description language, but my
> knowledge in this area is quite limited unfortunately.
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:11:14 +0200
>
>  Bogdan Marinescu <bogdan.marinescu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > And on a related topic: on the Lua list I've seen some
> >people that want Lua
> > support on much "lower end" architectures, like 8-bit
> >MCUs. As I see it
> > right now, the way to go with this is to have a
> >completely rewritten VM
> > interpreter (probably with lots of restrictions) that
> >would be able to run
> > on these machines. But I'm curious, how many people
> >would like to have even
> > a (quite) restricted Lua running on low-to-medium end
> >8/16-bit MCUs (with
> > little Flash and RAM resources)?
> >
> > Best,
> > Bogdan
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Bogdan Marinescu <
> > bogdan.marinescu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I've asked Atmel to spare us some samples of their
> >>upcoming AT32UC3A3
> >>> chip.  Hopefully we get full development kits, but maybe
> >>>just chips.
> >>
> >>
> >> They're probably some very "secret" chips yet, I don't
> >>even see them on
> >> their AVR32 device list page.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Is there anyone else on the list that would have time
> >>>and interest to
> >>> take up such a package?  I am asking for two, and my
> >>>thinking is we
> >>> could "shuffle" them among each other as need, interest
> >>>and available
> >>> time varies. So they would be "jointly" owned by the
> >>>eLua community.
> >>> Good or bad?
> >>
> >>
> >> Good, I think :)
> >>
> >>
> >>> There does not seem to be much public info on this chip,
> >>>yet.
> >>>
> >>> Here is what an Atmel friend wrote (guess this is
> >>>public, he did not
> >>> state otherwise):
> >>>
> >>> > Would the AT32UC3A be a good alternative for a stamp.
> >>> > This has networking on the chip.
> >>> > Code can be developed using the JTAGICE Mk II, which
> >>> > I bet is available to many people.
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, it turns out that (surprisingly :) ) there aren't
> >>that many people
> >> with access to a JTAGICE. The AVR32 I'm working with has
> >>a DFU mode for
> >> software uploading, I guess they'll keep it in the new
> >>chips too, so this is
> >> fine, cause all you need to program it is an USB cable
> >>and the software from
> >> Atmel (which runs equally well on Windows and Linux).
> >>
> >>
> >>> > We will soon have the AT32UC3A3 with high speed USB
> >>> > as well as SD-Card controller.
> >>> > Built for MP3. It also has more SRAM (128 kB).
> >>
> >>
> >> 128k of intermal SRAM is a Very Very Good Thing for eLua
> >>:)
> >>
> >> Please say YEAH if you personally are interested.
> >>
> >>
> >> YEAH !!!! :)
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've promised the Atmel guy that we'd craft an
> >>>Application Note on how
> >>> to use Lua on this chip.  I don't think that's too much
> >>>to be asked,
> >>> and it would further the cause of eLua, anyhow.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sure, this would benefit everybody. I'll write the
> >>appnote if we get
> >> somewhere with this.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Bogdan
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - asko
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bogdan Marinescu kirjoitti 12.2.2009 kello 10:07:
> >>>
> >>> > Hi all,
> >>> >
> >>> > There was recently a discussion on the Lua list about
> >>>Lua on
> >>> > embedded devices, and thinks got pretty hot (in a good
> >>>way :) ), so
> >>> > I invited all the people that wanted to continue that
> >>>discussion to
> >>> > join this list (since the profile of the Lua list
> >>>suggests that it's
> >>> > not the best place to discuss regular hardware). We
> >>>had more than 10
> >>> > people joining the elua-dev list after this
> >>>announcement, so I
> >>> > expect things to become pretty hot here too :) I'll
> >>>try to resume
> >>> > the discussions by including the last relevent message
> >>>from the Lua
> >>> > list (this message is from Mike Panetta):
> >>> >
> >>> > ========================================
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Tony Bauer
> >>><luatony at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > More embedded notes (with some Lua content):
> >>> >
> >>> > Yes, the LPC2478 is pretty nice.  My brother was
> >>>looking at using one
> >>> > at work (no Lua, though), but that project is
> >>>currently on hold.
> >>> >
> >>> > Somebody will make a Cortex M3 with an external bus.
> >>> The NXP LPC17xx
> >>> > series (Cortex M3) looks pretty nice; the LPC1768 has
> >>>64K RAM, 512K
> >>> > flash, MAC, USB OTG, 2xCAN, 4xUART, PWM, QEP, etc, but
> >>>no external
> >>> > bus.
> >>> >
> >>> > I am willing to bet that either Luminary or ST Micro
> >>>will be the
> >>> > first out the gate with such a design.  In fact ST
> >>>Micro has a new
> >>> > line of chips on the back burner to release some time
> >>>this year I
> >>> > think, but you have to sign an NDA to see the product
> >>>map, which I
> >>> > have not done so have no clue as to whats there.  I
> >>>personally think
> >>> > they may be waiting to pop right on the market with
> >>>available
> >>> > product as soon as Luminary announces what it has up
> >>>its sleeves.
> >>> > They seem to be in a tight heat with each other as far
> >>>as parts
> >>> > competition goes.
> >>> >
> >>> > I agree its too bad that ST does not have a cortex
> >>>part with
> >>> > Ethernet though, as they are the lowest price chip on
> >>>the market
> >>> > right now with the STM32F103ZET6 (512K Flash, 64K RAM,
> >>>CAN, USB, 8
> >>> > timers, 4 of which are capable of doing QEI, 2 of
> >>>which are capable
> >>> > of doing motion PWM, 5 U(S)ARTS, 3 SPI, 2 I2C etc
> >>>etc..... in an
> >>> > LQFP144) at $10.25 *IN SINGLES* at AVNET.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do not think that Luminary can compete with ST on
> >>>price at the
> >>> > moment because of process size (smaller process size
> >>>means more dice
> >>> > per wafer which means cheaper chips... but you already
> >>>knew that :)
> >>> > Thats of course assuming that ST uses a smaller
> >>>process then
> >>> > Luminary does (Isn't Luminary Fabless?).
> >>> >
> >>> > One thing that has made me pro ST (besides the price)
> >>>is that ST
> >>> > seems to characterize the power consumption of their
> >>>chips better
> >>> > then Luminary does.  They also seem to use less power
> >>>then either
> >>> > Luminary or NXP parts at the same clock.  However,
> >>>that may be
> >>> > misleading as the Luminary parts have faster flash in
> >>>them, so mips/
> >>> > watt may be less in the Luminary parts then in the ST
> >>>ones when
> >>> > running from Flash, but I have no data to back that up
> >>>(or dispute
> >>> > it).
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > In reality, all the really cool chips are BGA, but
> >>>those make QFPs
> >>> > look easy to prototype.  There are companies selling
> >>>products that
> >>> > claim to make prototyping with SMT parts easier, such
> >>>as SchmartBoard,
> >>> > but I haven't tried them.
> >>> >
> >>> > QFP's (and QFN's) *ARE* easy to prototype with, esp if
> >>>you designed
> >>> > the part footprint yourself. QFP's can be soldered in
> >>>a jiffy with a
> >>> > rake soldering technique, and when you get good at it
> >>>you won't even
> >>> > need to use solder braid to get the shorts out because
> >>>there won't
> >>> > be any. QFN's take a little bit longer (the ones with
> >>>a thermal pad
> >>> > on the bottom are easier IMO because you can fix them
> >>>down with it)
> >>> > but are also a no brainer.  I designed a
> >>>powersupply/LIPo charger
> >>> > with an LTC3556 USB power manager chip and hand
> >>>soldered it. First
> >>> > proto worked perfectly, no bridges or anything.  It
> >>>took me 2-3 hrs
> >>> > to complete the soldering job, all by hand.  My next
> >>>protos will
> >>> > hopefully be done by toaster method, but I need to
> >>>build a
> >>> > controller first.  Its kinda hard to get the parts
> >>>when your
> >>> > unemployed :P
> >>> >
> >>> > I personally think that most peoples fears to
> >>>soldering SMT parts is
> >>> > due to them never having tried it.  Before I first
> >>>started using SMT
> >>> > in my designs I thought the same thing.  One day I
> >>>just broke down
> >>> > and used some SMT parts on a small design, one that
> >>>would be ok to
> >>> > trash if I fudged it up.  Soldering the board was much
> >>>much easier
> >>> > then I first thought, even the QFP's! (It was an
> >>>ATMega128 design).
> >>> > Since then I have never wanted to go back to through
> >>>hole parts,
> >>> > except for little pieces of free wired 'art' that I
> >>>have made. :)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Still, ARM MCUs are getting down in size; the
> >>>STM32F103T8 has 20K RAM,
> >>> > 64K flash in a 36 pin QFN.  But to run Lua decently,
> >>>you'll need at
> >>> > least a QFP80 (e.g. LPC1758 with 64K, ST STR911FAM4x
> >>>with 96K SRAM).
> >>> > BTW, you always have to read the fine print; for
> >>>example, in both the
> >>> > STR9 and LPC238x, the 96K SRAM is also used for the
> >>>Ethernet buffers,
> >>> > so if you use the network, you won't actually have 96K
> >>>available.
> >>> >
> >>> > So very true.  All of the large ram NXP parts are like
> >>>that.  They
> >>> > have a 64K main RAM area, and 2 16K buffer/DMA areas
> >>>for the
> >>> > Ethernet and USB controllers.  Supposedly you can
> >>>execute out of the
> >>> > DMA RAM, but I think some of the parts have eratta
> >>>related to
> >>> > that...  And I would not hold my breath on the NXP
> >>>Cortex-M3 parts,
> >>> > it took over a year between when some of the LPC24xx
> >>>parts were
> >>> > 'released' and when they actually became available to
> >>>purchase in
> >>> > any real quantities.  The LCD parts were the worst I
> >>>believe, just
> >>> > becoming available around 2 months or so ago.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Compilers & DSPs: most DSPs need the manufacturer's
> >>>compilers (I know
> >>> > TI's do); however, IIRC, the ADI Blackfin DSPs use
> >>>gcc.  Someday I may
> >>> > try compiling Lua for a TI C6701 board, but that's not
> >>>going to happen
> >>> > for a while.
> >>> >
> >>> > CAN is a 1Mbps network, so there's no way a UART will
> >>>work.  You can
> >>> > add them externally, e.g. via a SPI port.
> >>> >
> >>> > Meh, UARTS in some chips can go up to 4Mbps now.  I do
> >>>agree that
> >>> > using SPI would be easier though, as Microchip has
> >>>SPI->CAN bridge
> >>> > chips available.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Finally, because this bugs me, some terminology notes:
> >>> > SoC - System on a Chip.  So, a chip that integrates
> >>>almost everything
> >>> > a piece of equipment (system) needs.  A good example
> >>>is a highly
> >>> > integrated chip for MP3 players.
> >>> > SiP - System on a Package.
> >>> > MCU - Microcontroller.  A CPU that includes all its
> >>>memory on chip.
> >>> > MCUs go back to the very early days, with such chips
> >>>as the Intel
> >>> > 8042, before the term SoC was ever used.
> >>> > MPU - Microprocessor.  A CPU that needs external
> >>>memory (e.g. x86,
> >>> > Atmel AT91RM9200)
> >>> >
> >>> > If there really is enough interest, we should start
> >>>thinking about
> >>> > starting a dedicated embedded processor Lua mailing
> >>>list.  Then we can
> >>> > go off topic without fear!
> >>> >
> >>> > I agree 100%!  I would love to continue this
> >>>discussion.
> >>> >
> >>> > ========================================
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Elua-dev mailing list
> >>> > Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Elua-dev mailing list
> >>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[Tony-12]

You've found a LuaStamp!  Well, once you get eLua running on it - but
seriously, it would be hard for any one of us to match that price, and the
ET-STM32 Stamp should do fine for eLua.  It's also impossible to match the
price of the dev kits (and yes, the ST Primer2 does look very nice -- if I
had the time to use it, I'd order one), so I think we should continue to
make sure eLua runs on a variety of attractive,already available, commercial
dev kits.

What the BasicStamp has that the ET-STM32 doesn't is the "out of box"
experience - it comes ready to run, with a manual.

Another LuaStamp approach could be to resell other boards with eLua
pre-installed, a good printed manual (that's worth money!), and maybe a
carrier board.

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Bogdan Marinescu <
bogdan.marinescu at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to use
> because if you need an UART you'll need to either:
>
> 1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard to
> work with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can install
> something useful there.
> 2. implement it via USB with CDC :)
>
> Also, I just ordered this:
>
> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
>
> Great piece of hardware at $25!
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>  Anyone spotted this:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
>> Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
>> eLua comfortably!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[Tony-12]

Well, I think designing and building a modern PCB has become easier - -I'm
on my fourth PCB already (simple stuff for work) and I'm a software guy --
thanks to the modern proto PCB companies.  But maybe partly that's a silicon
valley viewpoint.  But the fact is, for anything remotely high speed, you
really have to make a PCB.  BGAs, however, are a still different matter; for
one, you really need an X-ray system to inspect the boards after assembly.

If a Stamp board is simple, it should be easy to use on a solderless
breadboard for experimenting.

I think a variety of eLua boards would be a good thing.  My interests run
heavily towards industrial automation, which is different from hobby
robotics (I've done a couple jobs using industrial robots, too).  BTW, for
advanced motor controls, TI's DSPs are worth checking out, because in
additional to features like hardware floating point (on the F283xx), TI has
a lot of available motion control code (a lot more than anybody else).

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Great to hear that Dean !
>    In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that a
> stamp is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and
> prototypers if it does not come with a base board to plug it in.
>    It usually raises the cost (compared to evaluation/demo kits) but it has
> the advantage that the stamp can later be used in a final product.
>    The thing seems to be: "avoid forcing final users to build PCBs". They
> (here) are not too much against of adding hardware to a board (breadboard
> areas, prototyping standard boards, ....) but to design and build modern
> PCBs has become a barrier for many.
>
> Best
> Dado

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[Dean Hall]

Wow, that is one heckuva value (an ARM with legs that doesn't cost an  
arm and a leg!).  The chip alone is $13 at digikey.  I am very tempted.

!!Dean

On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:25 , Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

> I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to  
> use because if you need an UART you'll need to either:
>
> 1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard  
> to work with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can  
> install something useful there.
> 2. implement it via USB with CDC :)
>
> Also, I just ordered this:
>
> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
>
> Great piece of hardware at $25!
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk>  
> wrote:
> Anyone spotted this:
>
>
> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>
>
> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including  
> Romania and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM  
> microcontroller, so should run eLua comfortably!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

[Dado Sutter]

Hello John,
   Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development and
creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of the
Primer2.
   It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
change rate :( :( :(
   .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)

Best
Dado


On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:

>  Anyone spotted this:
>
>
>
> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>
>
>
> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
> Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
> eLua comfortably!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[Tony-12]

Question to everyone outside the US:
Are imports a big hassle?  In other words, if someone in the US (like me)
sends a package with a $49 STPrimer2 to Brazil or elsewhere, how much hassle
are customs?

BTW, listed prices don't always match selling in the US - for example, the
STR9 Comstick sells for $49 (according to ST), but Mouser is selling it for
$63.70

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello John,
>    Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development and
> creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of the
> Primer2.
>    It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
> is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
> vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
> change rate :( :( :(
>    .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)
>
> Best
> Dado
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>  Anyone spotted this:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
>> Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
>> eLua comfortably!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[John Hind]

Pity the stamp does not have a (micro) USB connector since the chip supports
that. RS232 is so twentieth century! Lack of Ethernet is also a minus
compared to Luminary/Atmel. But this is very much the form factor I had in
mind. I notice the chip has a boot-loader as it ships, could we make a eLua
installer that would put the system on the stamp on a one-click basis? Or
persuade this company to ship a version with eLua pre-loaded?

 

From: elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Bogdan Marinescu
Sent: 12 February 2009 16:26
To: eLua Users and Development List
Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] Awsome ST evaluation kit

 

I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to use
because if you need an UART you'll need to either:

1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard to work
with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can install
something useful there.
2. implement it via USB with CDC :)

Also, I just ordered this:

http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml

Great piece of hardware at $25!

Best,
Bogdan

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:

Anyone spotted this:

 

http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm

 

It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
eLua comfortably!

 


_______________________________________________
Elua-dev mailing list
Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

 

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[Pedro-5]

Tony,

Generally speaking imports in Brazil are really BIG hassle.
But if you send it is sent as a "gift" from a person to another person
here in Brazil, It's taxfree up to 50USD (Dado, correct me if I'm
wrong).

Pedro.



On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Tony <tony.elua at gmail.com> wrote:

> Question to everyone outside the US:
> Are imports a big hassle?  In other words, if someone in the US (like me)
> sends a package with a $49 STPrimer2 to Brazil or elsewhere, how much hassle
> are customs?
>
> BTW, listed prices don't always match selling in the US - for example, the
> STR9 Comstick sells for $49 (according to ST), but Mouser is selling it for
> $63.70
>
> --Tony
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello John,
>>    Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development
>> and creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of
>> the Primer2.
>>    It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
>> is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
>> vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
>> change rate :( :( :(
>>    .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)
>>
>> Best
>> Dado
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone spotted this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania
>>> and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should
>>> run eLua comfortably!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elua-dev mailing list
>>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Great to hear that Dean !
>    In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that a
> stamp is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and
> prototypers if it does not come with a base board to plug it in.


That depends very much on the context. Many hobbyists (me included) would be
perfectly happy with the stamp (and maybe a quickly prototyped support
board) in many situations, without feeling the needing for something more
complex (like a motherboard for the stamp).

Best,
Bogdan

> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:01, Dean Hall <dwhall256 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding 8-bit, I recommend avoiding that option.  Yes, I'm
>> shamelessly protecting PyMite's turf <smiley>.  Taking Lua to small
>> RAM would be a challenging problem, but ultimately frustrating: the
>> harder you work to make it fit in smaller RAM, the less capabilities
>> you are allowing!  This is a warning that comes from experience.
>>
>> Regarding hardware, I have a PCB that is currently being fabbed.  When
>> I get this design working, I plan to make it open (schematics and
>> layout in EAGLE).  It is small (51mm x 66mm) (2" x 2.6"), holds the
>> range of Atmel AT32UC3A1*** (TQFP100) and makes all pins available,
>> except PC4,5 which are connected to a 12 MHz xtal.  The pins are
>> available through 4 2x10 0.1" standard headers.  Other features: a
>> reset button, JTAG port and USB mini-B.  The board is powered by USB
>> or by a separate supply coming in through one of the 4 main connector
>> headers.  This board is meant to be stacked onto a carrier board of
>> your own design to provide the features you want.
>>
>> I chose the AT32UC3A1*** because it is the natural upgrade path of
>> AVR, it has up to 64 KB ram and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is available in-
>> stock at Digikey and  Mouser (the two most popular US suppliers that
>> provide small quantity).
>>
>> !!Dean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[jbsnyder]

I've noticed this in their license as well, and worried a bit about  
this too.  I'm happy with the project moving to a BSD license.  Will  
this be the standard one or modified?  The standard license includes  
reference to not using the organization or contributor names for  
promotion.  Is eLua itself considered an organization, or is there one  
to which it will be associated?  I can't say I have strong opinions  
about BSD (and variants) vs MIT, etc.. but I'm curious :-)

Also, this seems like a rather odd thing to include in a license that  
otherwise allows free redistribution as long as it is used with their  
hardware.  Especially if communications with with the company itself  
suggest that that phrase isn't something they would really pursue.  It  
feels more like a knee-jerk "GPL is bad, therefore we include an  
indirect reference to make it incompatible" kind of inclusion rather  
than a reasoned one.

-jsnyder


On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Actually WE well move to BSD starting with 0.6, so the problem will  
> solve by itself :) (I already asked on their forums, and BSD is not  
> considered a viral license).
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Jesus Alvarez  
> <jalvarez at micromint.com> wrote:
> Hello, Dado.
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> I believe that if their intention is to restrict usage to LMI  
> hardware, they
> should drop the "viral" statement from the license text. That  
> statement is
> not consistent with the intentions they state verbally or via email.  
> It
> could lead to misunderstandings in the future.
>
> The "viral" reference could even be considered insulting to some  
> open source
> enthusiasts. Relating virus to open source software is inappropriate  
> and to
> me it does not make much sense.
>
> It would be difficult to justify developing a driver library  
> independent
> from Luminary just because of that statement. Their library works  
> well and
> can be freely distributed. But they should remove that sentence from  
> the
> license and make the license text consistent with their apparent  
> intentions.
> Lawyers can find many ways to interpret a license so there should be  
> little
> room for interpretation. It would be better if they moved to BSD or  
> another
> common open source license that has been well tested. Yet that may  
> be asking
> too much.
>
> Regards,
> Jesus Alvarez
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: [phone]

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[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Tony <tony.elua at gmail.com> wrote:

> You've found a LuaStamp!  Well, once you get eLua running on it - but
> seriously, it would be hard for any one of us to match that price, and the
> ET-STM32 Stamp should do fine for eLua.  It's also impossible to match the
> price of the dev kits (and yes, the ST Primer2 does look very nice -- if I
> had the time to use it, I'd order one), so I think we should continue to
> make sure eLua runs on a variety of attractive,already available, commercial
> dev kits.


We'll sure keep on doing that! :) As an eLua stamp, this is a possibility,
but a bit too simple (just barely) for what I had in mind. A good starting
point nevertheless.

What the BasicStamp has that the ET-STM32 doesn't is the "out of box"
> experience - it comes ready to run, with a manual.


Well, our eLua documentation includes instructions on how to use eLua on
different boards. Granted, it's a bit more involved than running Basic
Stamp, but still reasonably easy IMO.

Another LuaStamp approach could be to resell other boards with eLua
> pre-installed, a good printed manual (that's worth money!), and maybe a
> carrier board.


Good idea! I think there are companies that might be persuated todo
something like this.

Best,
Bogdan

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Bogdan Marinescu <

> bogdan.marinescu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to use
>> because if you need an UART you'll need to either:
>>
>> 1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard to
>> work with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can install
>> something useful there.
>> 2. implement it via USB with CDC :)
>>
>> Also, I just ordered this:
>>
>> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
>>
>> Great piece of hardware at $25!
>>
>> Best,
>> Bogdan
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>  Anyone spotted this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania
>>> and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should
>>> run eLua comfortably!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elua-dev mailing list
>>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[Dado Sutter-2]

Hello,

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:55, Tony <tony.elua at gmail.com> wrote:

> Question to everyone outside the US:
> Are imports a big hassle?  In other words, if someone in the US (like me)
> sends a package with a $49 STPrimer2 to Brazil or elsewhere, how much hassle
> are customs?


Downhere, it really depends on how lucky you are and on the mood of the
customs officer at the central post management :)
Officially, there are two scenarios:

1 - If you receive a package sent from an individual, not a company from
where you bought something, we shouldn't  pay anything if the total price
(product + eventual US taxes + shipping) is <= US$ 50,00. Above that, the
Taxes are 60% over the whole price (not over the excedent). In practise it
is not always like that, as sometimes they decide that the declared price is
wrong and charge what they wont. I've also received much more value packages
that were not charged at all.
Only books (if they don't come with CDs ! or if they come with a separate
price declaration for the SW on the CDs ! :-o ) are free of taxes.

2 - If you buy something from a company, you pay 60% taxes over the invoice
price (including taxes, shipping and handling ! :-o ). To under-declare the
prices is a common thing but it doesn't always work.

   Also, as we are not exactly at USA neighborhood, shipping prices can be a
significant part of the expenses.

Best
Dado

>
> BTW, listed prices don't always match selling in the US - for example, the
> STR9 Comstick sells for $49 (according to ST), but Mouser is selling it for
> $63.70
>
> --Tony
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello John,
>>    Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development
>> and creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of
>> the Primer2.
>>    It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
>> is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
>> vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
>> change rate :( :( :(
>>    .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)
>>
>> Best
>> Dado
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>  Anyone spotted this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania
>>> and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should
>>> run eLua comfortably!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elua-dev mailing list
>>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>

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[John Hind]

Good gracious! Here in UK we often complain the dollar prices are the same
number in pounds, meaning about 1.5 times markup, and sure enough, Farnel
want ?50 before sales tax for this item. Like Tony, I?d be happy to purchase
for you if we can re-export to you without customs difficulties.

 

From: elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Dado Sutter
Sent: 12 February 2009 17:42
To: eLua Users and Development List
Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] Awsome ST evaluation kit

 

Hello John,
   Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development and
creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of the
Primer2.
   It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
change rate :( :( :(
   .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)

Best
Dado



On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:

Anyone spotted this:

 

http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm

 

It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania and
Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should run
eLua comfortably!

 


_______________________________________________
Elua-dev mailing list
Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

 

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[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:12 PM, James Snyder <jbsnyder at fanplastic.org>wrote:

> I've noticed this in their license as well, and worried a bit about this
> too.  I'm happy with the project moving to a BSD license.  Will this be the
> standard one or modified?  The standard license includes reference to not
> using the organization or contributor names for promotion.  Is eLua itself
> considered an organization, or is there one to which it will be associated?
>  I can't say I have strong opinions about BSD (and variants) vs MIT, etc..
> but I'm curious :-)
>

eLua is not (yet) an organization. Thank you for this question, I'll have to
think about it. I'm not a licensing specialist by any measure, so this kind
of discussion keeps me on the right track :)

>
> Also, this seems like a rather odd thing to include in a license that
> otherwise allows free redistribution as long as it is used with their
> hardware.  Especially if communications with with the company itself suggest
> that that phrase isn't something they would really pursue.  It feels more
> like a knee-jerk "GPL is bad, therefore we include an indirect reference to
> make it incompatible" kind of inclusion rather than a reasoned one.
>

As usual, the world is not black and white, there are numerous colors
in-between :) I can understand their point and relate to it to some extent.
I agree that GPL helped the open source scene a lot, but I also think it can
be quite restrictive at times. But we took the decision to move to BSD
before realizing that we have a problem with the LM3S library, so everything
is OK as far as we are concerned :)
I'm actually inclined to release eLua itself under MIT, but we already
include software that's BSD (uIP and some manufacturer libraries) and I
don't know how these would interact. Plus it would probably confuse users to
have a project that's licensed under multiple licenses, so we'll stick to
BSD in the end.

Best,
Bogdan

>
> -jsnyder
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Actually WE well move to BSD starting with 0.6, so the problem will solve
> by itself :) (I already asked on their forums, and BSD is not considered a
> viral license).
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Jesus Alvarez <jalvarez at micromint.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello, Dado.
>>
>> Thanks for your comments.
>>
>> I believe that if their intention is to restrict usage to LMI hardware,
>> they
>> should drop the "viral" statement from the license text. That statement is
>> not consistent with the intentions they state verbally or via email. It
>> could lead to misunderstandings in the future.
>>
>> The "viral" reference could even be considered insulting to some open
>> source
>> enthusiasts. Relating virus to open source software is inappropriate and
>> to
>> me it does not make much sense.
>>
>> It would be difficult to justify developing a driver library independent
>> from Luminary just because of that statement. Their library works well and
>> can be freely distributed. But they should remove that sentence from the
>> license and make the license text consistent with their apparent
>> intentions.
>> Lawyers can find many ways to interpret a license so there should be
>> little
>> room for interpretation. It would be better if they moved to BSD or
>> another
>> common open source license that has been well tested. Yet that may be
>> asking
>> too much.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jesus Alvarez
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> --
> James Snyder
> Biomedical Engineering
> Northwestern University
> jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
> http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
> ph: [phone]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[BogdanM]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Tony <tony.elua at gmail.com> wrote:

> Question to everyone outside the US:
> Are imports a big hassle?  In other words, if someone in the US (like me)
> sends a package with a $49 STPrimer2 to Brazil or elsewhere, how much hassle
> are customs?


When it comes to electronic COMPONENTS (as in chips or even assembled
boards, as long as they don't look like a video player, MP3 player or
whatever else they might consider a fully blown device :) ), we don't
generally pay taxes in Romania.

Best,
Bogdan

>
>
> BTW, listed prices don't always match selling in the US - for example, the
> STR9 Comstick sells for $49 (according to ST), but Mouser is selling it for
> $63.70
>
> --Tony
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello John,
>>    Just to illustrate how taxes and weird policies can kill development
>> and creativity, I just called Farnell to check the price and availability of
>> the Primer2.
>>    It is not available and they ask for 6 to 12 weeks to deliver. The item
>> is imported on demand and the final price here (estimated, because it may
>> vary with the US$ rate) is R$ 612,00  a little over US$ 260,00 in today's
>> change rate :( :( :(
>>    .... Still, we have Carnival and a nice weather ....... :)
>>
>> Best
>> Dado
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>  Anyone spotted this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including Romania
>>> and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM microcontroller, so should
>>> run eLua comfortably!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elua-dev mailing list
>>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[John Hind]

I agree - making boards up to double-sided plate-through is very easy with
free software and online services like PCBTrain and PCB-Pool, even economic
in single units. Still more difficult to assemble surface-mount components
though unless you have special equipment or very good eyesight and steady
hands! Still batches of a few dozen including assembly can be had
economically.

 

From: elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:elua-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: 12 February 2009 17:13
To: dado at pobox.com; eLua Users and Development List
Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] eLua open hardware

 

Well, I think designing and building a modern PCB has become easier - -I'm
on my fourth PCB already (simple stuff for work) and I'm a software guy --
thanks to the modern proto PCB companies.  But maybe partly that's a silicon
valley viewpoint.  But the fact is, for anything remotely high speed, you
really have to make a PCB.  BGAs, however, are a still different matter; for
one, you really need an X-ray system to inspect the boards after assembly.

If a Stamp board is simple, it should be easy to use on a solderless
breadboard for experimenting.

I think a variety of eLua boards would be a good thing.  My interests run
heavily towards industrial automation, which is different from hobby
robotics (I've done a couple jobs using industrial robots, too).  BTW, for
advanced motor controls, TI's DSPs are worth checking out, because in
additional to features like hardware floating point (on the F283xx), TI has
a lot of available motion control code (a lot more than anybody else).

--Tony

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:

Great to hear that Dean !
   In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that a stamp
is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and prototypers if
it does not come with a base board to plug it in.
   It usually raises the cost (compared to evaluation/demo kits) but it has
the advantage that the stamp can later be used in a final product.
   The thing seems to be: "avoid forcing final users to build PCBs". They
(here) are not too much against of adding hardware to a board (breadboard
areas, prototyping standard boards, ....) but to design and build modern
PCBs has become a barrier for many.

Best
Dado

 

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[BogdanM]

> I think a variety of eLua boards would be a good thing.


Definitely! Although this would also add some problems (like the
incompatibilities between different stamps), having the user able to make an
actual choice would be a Good Thing.

Best,
Bogdan

> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Dado Sutter <dadosutter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Great to hear that Dean !
>>    In our very informal "backyard market research", we've found that a
>> stamp is not completely welcome to hobbyst, educational teams and
>> prototypers if it does not come with a base board to plug it in.
>>    It usually raises the cost (compared to evaluation/demo kits) but it
>> has the advantage that the stamp can later be used in a final product.
>>    The thing seems to be: "avoid forcing final users to build PCBs". They
>> (here) are not too much against of adding hardware to a board (breadboard
>> areas, prototyping standard boards, ....) but to design and build modern
>> PCBs has become a barrier for many.
>>
>> Best
>> Dado
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[Dado Sutter]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 16:12, James Snyder <jbsnyder at fanplastic.org> wrote:

> I've noticed this in their license as well, and worried a bit about this
> too.  I'm happy with the project moving to a BSD license.  Will this be the
> standard one or modified?  The standard license includes reference to not
> using the organization or contributor names for promotion.  Is eLua itself
> considered an organization, or is there one to which it will be associated?
>  I can't say I have strong opinions about BSD (and variants) vs MIT, etc..
> but I'm curious :-)
>

Please send us your "strong opinions" and feelings about these licenses, in
pvt if you prefer. They will sure be of great help, as we can be anything
but lawyers here :)


> Also, this seems like a rather odd thing to include in a license that
> otherwise allows free redistribution as long as it is used with their
> hardware.  Especially if communications with with the company itself suggest
> that that phrase isn't something they would really pursue.  It feels more
> like a knee-jerk "GPL is bad, therefore we include an indirect reference to
> make it incompatible" kind of inclusion rather than a reasoned one.
>

To be continued one day, when we recontact Luminary Micro for that matter.
For now, we are very focused on closing our v0.6, to release it by the end
of the month.


> -jsnyder
>

Best
Dado

>
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Actually WE well move to BSD starting with 0.6, so the problem will solve
> by itself :) (I already asked on their forums, and BSD is not considered a
> viral license).
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Jesus Alvarez <jalvarez at micromint.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello, Dado.
>>
>> Thanks for your comments.
>>
>> I believe that if their intention is to restrict usage to LMI hardware,
>> they
>> should drop the "viral" statement from the license text. That statement is
>> not consistent with the intentions they state verbally or via email. It
>> could lead to misunderstandings in the future.
>>
>> The "viral" reference could even be considered insulting to some open
>> source
>> enthusiasts. Relating virus to open source software is inappropriate and
>> to
>> me it does not make much sense.
>>
>> It would be difficult to justify developing a driver library independent
>> from Luminary just because of that statement. Their library works well and
>> can be freely distributed. But they should remove that sentence from the
>> license and make the license text consistent with their apparent
>> intentions.
>> Lawyers can find many ways to interpret a license so there should be
>> little
>> room for interpretation. It would be better if they moved to BSD or
>> another
>> common open source license that has been well tested. Yet that may be
>> asking
>> too much.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jesus Alvarez
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>
> --
> James Snyder
> Biomedical Engineering
> Northwestern University
> jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
> http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
> ph: [phone]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
>

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[jbsnyder]

That is an amazing value.

It's also got 16 adc channels (12 bit!), 2 DACs and USB.

Unfortunately it doesn't have ethernet, but, wow.  I think I'll order  
a few of these :-)

On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Dean Hall wrote:

> Wow, that is one heckuva value (an ARM with legs that doesn't cost an
> arm and a leg!).  The chip alone is $13 at digikey.  I am very  
> tempted.
>
> !!Dean
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:25 , Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
>
>> I have one of those :) It looks interesting, but it's a bit hard to
>> use because if you need an UART you'll need to either:
>>
>> 1. install a board into their "extension connector". It's kinda hard
>> to work with it tough, but I ordered a header and will see if I can
>> install something useful there.
>> 2. implement it via USB with CDC :)
>>
>> Also, I just ordered this:
>>
>> http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
>>
>> Great piece of hardware at $25!
>>
>> Best,
>> Bogdan
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Hind <john.hind at zen.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> Anyone spotted this:
>>
>>
>> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2009/p2364.htm
>>
>>
>> It is available now from Farnell (operates worldwide including
>> Romania and Brazil), costs $50 and has a 512/64 KB ARM
>> microcontroller, so should run eLua comfortably!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elua-dev mailing list
>> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> Elua-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: [phone]

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