New Stellaris MCU announced, plus TI Delfino

[Tony-12]

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.  It looks like the initial
MCUs are all 100 pin LQFP's, so my guess is that there will be severe
pin-collisions if you start to use the external buses (especially 16-bit
or 32-bit).  I'll also be interested to see what the pricing is
(especially compared to NXP's LPC2478 which also has a 32-bit bus).

TI has introduced some new DSPs (the Delfino series
http://www.ti.com/ww/en/aec/delfino/index.htm?DCMP=Delfino&HQS=Sample+PR+delfinopr 
) in the 28xxx series.  On the bad side: you have to use TI's compiler,
no flash memory, no ADCs, and only BGA packages.  On the good side:
200MHz or 300MHz clock, normal DSP peripherals (PWM, quadrature encoder,
etc), external memory bus, hardware 32-bit floating point, and 260K or
516K on-chip RAM.  Announced pricing (Digikey will probably be a bit
higher) is $13.50 for the C28343 (260K SRAM), $19.50 for the C28346
(516K SRAM) in 100's.  If the Delfinos had 512K flash and a LQFP
package, they would make a very good eLua chip.

--Tony
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[BogdanM]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

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[Tony-12]

OK, I missed the PHY.

It looks like only the 9B95 is 100MHz; the 9B90 and 9B92 are 80MHz.  Also, some other series get 96K RAM (e.g. LM3S2B93 (96K/256K), and LM3S6611 (96K/128K)).  The 9B95 is clearly the top of the line Stellaris MCU.

I don't feel like registering to see the data sheet, but I'm very curious to see how they handle multiple pin functions.   I think Luminary needs to provide some larger packages, since using a 16 or 32-bit data bus will use a lot of the available pins.

BTW, the NXP LPC17xx (when they ship) is also 100MHz but only 64K SRAM.  LPC29xx (ARM968E) is 125MHz. Competition is good.

I suspect MCU clock rates are limited by flash speeds - I believe 100-125MHz is about the maximum speed for single-cycle (most of the time) on-chip flash speed, and that's probably one reason TI's Delfinos, at 300MHz, don't have on-chip flash.  Still, 100MHz is plenty for almost any real world MCU application.

--Tony


Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

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[BogdanM]

I don't feel like registering to see the data sheet, but I'm very curious to see how they handle multiple pin functions.   I think Luminary needs to provide some larger packages, since using a 16 or 32-bit data bus will use a lot of the available pins.

Very interesting decision, indeed. Partly because they don't have many pins, and partly because they don't have a 32-bit instruction set (32-bit is very good for data though). 

BTW, the NXP LPC17xx (when they ship) is also 100MHz but only 64K SRAM.  LPC29xx (ARM968E) is 125MHz. Competition is good.

On the Ethernet site, they really don't have much competition, this is why I emphasized the PHY part. Just add an external Ethernet jack+magnetics and you're all set. Works wonders in terms of simplicity and PCB space.
 

I suspect MCU clock rates are limited by flash speeds - I believe 100-125MHz is about the maximum speed for single-cycle (most of the time) on-chip flash speed, and that's probably one reason TI's Delfinos, at 300MHz, don't have on-chip flash.  Still, 100MHz is plenty for almost any real world MCU application.

Indeed! And that package, although probably heavily multiplexed, is still hobbyist-friendly to some extent. This is why I'm so excited about this whole thing.

Best,
Bogdan
 

--Tony


Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

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[Mike Panetta]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, I missed the PHY.

It looks like only the 9B95 is 100MHz; the 9B90 and 9B92 are 80MHz.  Also, some other series get 96K RAM (e.g. LM3S2B93 (96K/256K), and LM3S6611 (96K/128K)).  The 9B95 is clearly the top of the line Stellaris MCU.

Yeah, I wonder why they did that?  The flash in all parts is single cycle access so that can't be the reason.
 

I don't feel like registering to see the data sheet, but I'm very curious to see how they handle multiple pin functions.   I think Luminary needs to provide some larger packages, since using a 16 or 32-bit data bus will use a lot of the available pins.

The EPI module only uses 32 pins total.  It uses a multiplexed address/data mode for the SDRAM mode, so 8 of the 32 pins are unused.  Also it seems that you can't use multiple modes at once, so you can do Host Bus mode *OR* SDRAM mode, which kinda sucks for some apps, but if all you need to do is add ram its perfect.
 

BTW, the NXP LPC17xx (when they ship) is also 100MHz but only 64K SRAM.  LPC29xx (ARM968E) is 125MHz. Competition is good.

I suspect MCU clock rates are limited by flash speeds - I believe 100-125MHz is about the maximum speed for single-cycle (most of the time) on-chip flash speed, and that's probably one reason TI's Delfinos, at 300MHz, don't have on-chip flash.  Still, 100MHz is plenty for almost any real world MCU application.

100MHz is more then enough for what I want to do which is general motion control.  Its even more then fast enough for some audio quality DSP applications, up to and including decoding/playing compressed audio (I believe someone on the ST forums have OGG decoding working, and maybe MP3, but it came pretty close to maxing out the CPU).

All in all it looks like a great addition to the lineup.  I can't wait to see what ST's counter offer is!

--Tony

Mike
 

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[Alex Babkin]

The recent announcements of lpc1700, spy info of new stm32s (with ethernet capability and other goodies) and now luminary is all interesting an all, but i am tired of waiting for the actual samples.
Seems like they are all playing a waiting game, perhaps to "best" the other

Personally, my hands are scratching to try something new

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Bogdan Marinescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't feel like registering to see the data sheet, but I'm very curious to see how they handle multiple pin functions.   I think Luminary needs to provide some larger packages, since using a 16 or 32-bit data bus will use a lot of the available pins.

Very interesting decision, indeed. Partly because they don't have many pins, and partly because they don't have a 32-bit instruction set (32-bit is very good for data though). 

BTW, the NXP LPC17xx (when they ship) is also 100MHz but only 64K SRAM.  LPC29xx (ARM968E) is 125MHz. Competition is good.

On the Ethernet site, they really don't have much competition, this is why I emphasized the PHY part. Just add an external Ethernet jack+magnetics and you're all set. Works wonders in terms of simplicity and PCB space.
 

I suspect MCU clock rates are limited by flash speeds - I believe 100-125MHz is about the maximum speed for single-cycle (most of the time) on-chip flash speed, and that's probably one reason TI's Delfinos, at 300MHz, don't have on-chip flash.  Still, 100MHz is plenty for almost any real world MCU application.

Indeed! And that package, although probably heavily multiplexed, is still hobbyist-friendly to some extent. This is why I'm so excited about this whole thing.

Best,
Bogdan
 

--Tony


Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

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[Alex Babkin]

Mike, i think ST heard you ;)

http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/15274.pdf


Alex

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Alex Babkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

The recent announcements of lpc1700, spy info of new stm32s (with ethernet capability and other goodies) and now luminary is all interesting an all, but i am tired of waiting for the actual samples.
Seems like they are all playing a waiting game, perhaps to "best" the other

Personally, my hands are scratching to try something new

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Bogdan Marinescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't feel like registering to see the data sheet, but I'm very curious to see how they handle multiple pin functions.   I think Luminary needs to provide some larger packages, since using a 16 or 32-bit data bus will use a lot of the available pins.

Very interesting decision, indeed. Partly because they don't have many pins, and partly because they don't have a 32-bit instruction set (32-bit is very good for data though). 

BTW, the NXP LPC17xx (when they ship) is also 100MHz but only 64K SRAM.  LPC29xx (ARM968E) is 125MHz. Competition is good.

On the Ethernet site, they really don't have much competition, this is why I emphasized the PHY part. Just add an external Ethernet jack+magnetics and you're all set. Works wonders in terms of simplicity and PCB space.
 

I suspect MCU clock rates are limited by flash speeds - I believe 100-125MHz is about the maximum speed for single-cycle (most of the time) on-chip flash speed, and that's probably one reason TI's Delfinos, at 300MHz, don't have on-chip flash.  Still, 100MHz is plenty for almost any real world MCU application.

Indeed! And that package, although probably heavily multiplexed, is still hobbyist-friendly to some extent. This is why I'm so excited about this whole thing.

Best,
Bogdan
 

--Tony


Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

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[John Hind]

Bogdan, is 256k really enough? I know the eLua build, even with a network stack, fits into this, but only just and there is not much left over for the application itself. I do not have your experience, but my instinct tells me that we need 512k for a practical LuaStamp that can be used in significant real-world applications. I cannot understand why these memory quantities seem to be stuck so low when you can get multi-GB dedicated flash chips and the rush to supply microcontroller chips with external memory busses suggests the market wants more memory. As has been pointed out by others external busses are a poor substitute for sufficient memory on the chip, not least because external memory complicates the PCB requirements.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bogdan Marinescu
Sent: 03 March 2009 17:11
To: eLua Users and Development List
Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] New Stellaris MCU announced, plus TI Delfino

 

 

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

 

 

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[BogdanM]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:47 AM, John Hind <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bogdan, is 256k really enough? I know the eLua build, even with a network stack, fits into this, but only just and there is not much left over for the application itself. I do not have your experience, but my instinct tells me that we need 512k for a practical LuaStamp that can be used in significant real-world applications. I cannot understand why these memory quantities seem to be stuck so low when you can get multi-GB dedicated flash chips and the rush to supply microcontroller chips with external memory busses suggests the market wants more memory. As has been pointed out by others external busses are a poor substitute for sufficient memory on the chip, not least because external memory complicates the PCB requirements.

You're right, 256k is not really that much, but the existence of an external bus makes this problem a bit less critical, even though you're perfectly right about the PCB requirements. As soon as something with 512k (and otherwise similar specs) surfaces, I'll instantly adopt that one :)

Best,
Bogdan

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bogdan Marinescu
Sent: 03 March 2009 17:11
To: eLua Users and Development List
Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] New Stellaris MCU announced, plus TI Delfino

 

 

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:

Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
are the 9B00 series (details here
http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including SDRAM
support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.

Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz. And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper, this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some devboards to surface.

Best,
Bogdan

 

 

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[Asko Kauppi]

I think it's just that they need to draw the line somewhere, and there  
are a lot of variables to compromise with.

Once companies realize there is a market and demand for LuaStamp like  
device, we could basically tell them the suitable specs and they'd  
deliver. That would be fun!  Currently I don't think they see a market  
in this, so we need to go with what we get.

-asko



John Hind kirjoitti 4.3.2009 kello 10:47:

> Bogdan, is 256k really enough? I know the eLua build, even with a  
> network stack, fits into this, but only just and there is not much  
> left over for the application itself. I do not have your experience,  
> but my instinct tells me that we need 512k for a practical LuaStamp  
> that can be used in significant real-world applications. I cannot  
> understand why these memory quantities seem to be stuck so low when  
> you can get multi-GB dedicated flash chips and the rush to supply  
> microcontroller chips with external memory busses suggests the  
> market wants more memory. As has been pointed out by others external  
> busses are a poor substitute for sufficient memory on the chip, not  
> least because external memory complicates the PCB requirements.
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]
> ] On Behalf Of Bogdan Marinescu
> Sent: 03 March 2009 17:11
> To: eLua Users and Development List
> Subject: Re: [eLua-dev] New Stellaris MCU announced, plus TI Delfino
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Luminary has announced their new Stellaris chips; the most interesting
> are the 9B00 series (details here
> http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/9b00.html )
> Highlights include 96K SRAM, 256K flash, external buses (including  
> SDRAM
> support), 10/100M Ethernet MAC, USB, and CAN.
>
> Correction, that would be Ethernet MAC _AND_ PHY. At up to 100MHz.  
> And 96k internal SRAM (still "only" 256k of Flash though, but I can  
> live with that). OK, if they look as good IRL as they look on paper,  
> this is by far my new favourite chip ever :) Can't wait for some  
> devboards to surface.
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elua-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

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[Mike Panetta]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:07 AM, Bogdan Marinescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:47 AM, John Hind <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bogdan, is 256k really enough? I know the eLua build, even with a network stack, fits into this, but only just and there is not much left over for the application itself. I do not have your experience, but my instinct tells me that we need 512k for a practical LuaStamp that can be used in significant real-world applications. I cannot understand why these memory quantities seem to be stuck so low when you can get multi-GB dedicated flash chips and the rush to supply microcontroller chips with external memory busses suggests the market wants more memory. As has been pointed out by others external busses are a poor substitute for sufficient memory on the chip, not least because external memory complicates the PCB requirements.

You're right, 256k is not really that much, but the existence of an external bus makes this problem a bit less critical, even though you're perfectly right about the PCB requirements. As soon as something with 512k (and otherwise similar specs) surfaces, I'll instantly adopt that one :)

Problem is you can have SDRAM *OR* Flash, not both on the Luminary EPI interface.  Which would be awesome once we get demand loading off SD card working ;)
 

Best,
Bogdan

Mike
 

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[BogdanM]

Problem is you can have SDRAM *OR* Flash, not both on the Luminary EPI interface.  Which would be awesome once we get demand loading off SD card working ;)

Hmmm. I should've read the specs more carefully. This is a huge limitation, but also a good incentive to develop those damned loadable modules already :)

Best,
Bogdan

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[jbsnyder]

Even now, though, with the SD card support in the branch, you could drop the romfs, and only load Lua scripts from the SD card for situations where flash space is getting tight.

That said, loadable modules would be nice too :-)

-jsnyder

----- "Bogdan Marinescu" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>

>

>

Problem is you can have SDRAM *OR* Flash, not both on the Luminary EPI interface.  Which would be awesome once we get demand loading off SD card working ;)

> Hmmm. I should've read the specs more carefully. This is a huge limitation, but also a good incentive to develop those damned loadable modules already :)
>
> Best,
> Bogdan
>
>

>
> _______________________________________________ Elua-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/elua-dev

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