http://elua-development.15.s1.nabble.com/Mixed-arm-and-thumb-code-tp2537643p2552707.html
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 01:20, Mike Panetta
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Think of all the people that don't have a fast connection that have to download a tool that may take many minutes to download and only a few to use. I would figure that being a person in a country where its hard to get hardware shipped/sourced you of all people would appreciate that. Imagine if we made people buy a hardware dongle (download a special build software) to do eLua development. Now quite a few of the people that want to do the development are in countries where buying and shipping the hardware is very difficult (slow network connection). That may be a bad analogy, but I think it fits to explain where I am coming from with my idea of build systems...
Well, I can't think of a worse country to get hardware/components than Brasil today. On the other hand, I have a 27~30 Mbps bandwidth on my Lab :). At home, the average connection in Rio, at least for TI guys is ~8Mbps. 25Mbps is available in some areas but is still expensive. For ordinary connections, the average is 2~4 Mbps (ADSL, Cable and some radio).
Wideband coverage is reasonable in the main/big cities, poor in most others and almost absent in the rest of the country, that is just too big for this matter. Things are changing fast though, compared to other infra-structure growth.
Please understand that I'm not trying to convince you that make is a bad tool, because I don't believe that. I'm just answering to your "why do you hate make" question. And I'm stating this because I don't want to start yet another religious war, although it would be a first for our mailing list :)
Hmm, a religious war around make would indeed be an odd one, esp for a first on a list. ;) Sorry if it seems like I am trying to start one, as I am not. I just never have understood the want of some to apply a large and generic tool to the job of a very specific and seldom used problem domain. Especially when there already exists a universally available and specifically designed tool for the job. Thats an issue with me, not anyone else. :)
Hamster ? Asko ? :)
(it is actually scons under the hood but with Lua driving it)
PS. Hmmm ... sounds to me like you'd like to contribute a make-based build system to eLua ? :D
I could if you really wanted. I could even make it fancy with a graphical configuration tool like the Linux kernel has (in fact it would be the same tool). In one way that would be nice to have as it seperates platform configuration out of the code, but I don't think eLua is big enough to actually *need* that feature right now.
Thanks for the great debate :),
I think I've mentined before, the idea of a IUP based building system and we have actually creted a framework prototype for this. But it was done by some students, it needs a good cleanup (=redo it right :) and _time_ to work on it :( :(
Should I try to restart to work on this _now_ (=right after v0.6 release) ?
Dado
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Bogdan Marinescu
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Well, personally I have a simple rule: if I keep on forgetting stuff I learn about a tool, it's not good enough for me. With make, I could never remember $@, $?, $< and other syntax stuff. Not to mention that the whole tabbing thing drives me insane. This is reminescent of the old Unix days (somebody here ever tried to modify an old sendmail.cf file ? :), and frankly (besides their unquestionable place in history) I don't think too high of them, mainly because I find them counterproductive. It's the same reason I'll never get along with perl, for example. And the list could go on :) I think we're progressing towards better tools, and although they are far from perfect, I get along with them just fine. scons is an example of such tool for me. Plus, on the more practical side, I could never do the kind of scripting I do in SConstruct with make.
Best,
BogdanOn Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Mike Panetta
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a general question... Why do people hate make so much? Its extremely powerful and IMO easy(er) to use for dependency tracking build systems then any other language... Not to mention the fact that anyone that is already using GCC has gmake installed, where that can't be said about any other build tool...
Just my 0.02 currency units.
MikeOn Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Dado Sutter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 16:44, Arnim Littek
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Under these circumstances I'd be questioning whether scons is the right tool
for the job. Tools are not there to make life difficult, and if one doesn't
work, it is time to find another. IMHO
Under the same philosophy of "doing the most we can in Lua", I've been checking the possibility of using
Hamster.
Asko is here in the list with us and is checking what went wrong with my first try on using it.
I'm not sure if it will solve this issue though, as Hamster is also based on scons.
Best
Dado
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