eLua project site is down -- and an introduction

[mpthompson]

Hi, just want to mention that the eLua web site at http://www.eluaproject.net/ looks to be down for at least 24 hours this weekend.  Hopefully this is just a minor glitch and it will be up again soon.

BTW, I'm VERY new Lua in general and eLua specifically, but in 2 days I've made my way through about 2/3's of the "Programming in Lua" book and I'm excited by what I'm learning about this sleek little language.  I'm working on what I believe is an exciting project that will hopefully make it very easy for kids (of all ages) to program Arm based robotic devices such as the LEGO NXT.   I have a 7 year old just getting into Lego NXT and I was very surprised that there really aren't programming environments for this otherwise exceptional learning tool geared for kids 7 to 14 in age -- including LEGO's own NXT-G environment which is clumsy to work with at best.  Most NXT environments seem to be aimed at serious hobbyist with professional software experience.  This is fine itself, but not a realistic solution for 95% of kids who just want to make robots do interesting things.  Anyway, I'm hoping that there is opportunity to bring innovation to this area.  Based on what I'm learning about Lua and eLua's ability to run on resource limited devices, it could be just the ticket for implementing a substantial part of the solution I hope to create.  I'll be hanging out here for a while as I get running eLua running on an Olimex AT91SAM7S256 dev board I purchased and then eventually the NXT brick itself.

BTW, I have been in contact with Ralph Hempel, the creator of pbLua for the NXT, and he provided a lot of encouragement to pursue Lua for my project.  I'm sure pbLua will factor somehow into what I'm doing, but for now I want to get a bottoms-up education on running Lua as close to the metal as I can.  Working with eLua at the source code level seems like a good place to begin.

I would like to thank the eLua creators and community for creating a wonderful resource that others can piggy back on top of.

Mike Thompson

[Dado Sutter]

Hello All,
   Thank you for the presentation and for the comments Mike. It is very important for us to know the goals and the usages of eLua users, so we can "tune" the development accordingly.
   I'm glad you are already in contact with Ralph, as he is _the_ guy to hear for the Lego NXT and for Lua Embedded in general. Don't miss his chapter on the new Lua Programming Gems book. Ralph is here in the list with us too.
   We use the Lego NXT (and pbLua !) in some classes in PUC-Rio and we decided to begin our Lego NXT eLua port (MCU is already supported) last january. But for almost three months now we've been trying to buy one unit for me and another one for Bogdan, without success. Unfortunately, both Brazil and Romania have silly difficulties with customs and/or import taxes, There are no Lego representatives down here and, although there are in Romania, they were not capable of shipping one to Bogdan yet.
   Pls forgive us for the problems we are experiencing with the site. We hope to get it back online very soon.

Regards
Dado


  

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 04:50, mpthompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, just want to mention that the eLua web site at
http://www.eluaproject.net/ looks to be down for at least 24 hours this
weekend.  Hopefully this is just a minor glitch and it will be up again
soon.

BTW, I'm VERY new Lua in general and eLua specifically, but in 2 days I've
made my way through about 2/3's of the "Programming in Lua" book and I'm
excited by what I'm learning about this sleek little language.  I'm working
on what I believe is an exciting project that will hopefully make it very
easy for kids (of all ages) to program Arm based robotic devices such as the
LEGO NXT.   I have a 7 year old just getting into Lego NXT and I was very
surprised that there really aren't programming environments for this
otherwise exceptional learning tool geared for kids 7 to 14 in age --
including LEGO's own NXT-G environment which is clumsy to work with at best.
Most NXT environments seem to be aimed at serious hobbyist with professional
software experience.  This is fine itself, but not a realistic solution for
95% of kids who just want to make robots do interesting things.  Anyway, I'm
hoping that there is opportunity to bring innovation to this area.  Based on
what I'm learning about Lua and eLua's ability to run on resource limited
devices, it could be just the ticket for implementing a substantial part of
the solution I hope to create.  I'll be hanging out here for a while as I
get running eLua running on an Olimex AT91SAM7S256 dev board I purchased and
then eventually the NXT brick itself.

BTW, I have been in contact with Ralph Hempel, the creator of pbLua for the
NXT, and he provided a lot of encouragement to pursue Lua for my project.
I'm sure pbLua will factor somehow into what I'm doing, but for now I want
to get a bottoms-up education on running Lua as close to the metal as I can.
Working with eLua at the source code level seems like a good place to begin.

I would like to thank the eLua creators and community for creating a
wonderful resource that others can piggy back on top of.

Mike Thompson

--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/eLua-project-site-is-down----and-an-introduction-tp2519845p2519845.html
Sent from the eLua Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[John Hind]

I was wondering if there was anything some of us could do to make it easier for Dado and Bogdan to get hardware?

 

Is it any easier if you purchase “used” equipment via the likes of eBay? Or if hardware is (genuinely) gifted or loaned to you? I notice there is a far amount of used Lego Nxt equipment already available on eBay.  Or it should be possible to set up some system where donations are collected via Paypal and someone in the US or EU uses this to purchase needed equipment and send it to you by whatever route works (loan, gift, second-hand purchase, whatever). Obviously within the law, but maybe there is some way round this?

 

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[Dado Sutter]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 09:30, John Hind <[hidden email]> wrote:

I was wondering if there was anything some of us could do to make it easier for Dado and Bogdan to get hardware?

Thank you very much John.
We've been getting help and support from other users but it is still hard :(
Asko Kauppi, from Finland, will send us two kits from Atmel. Bogdan will get his fairly easy but mine will have to be sent to Chamonix, France, from where I have a french friend comming down to the tropics by the end of April.
No scheme seems to work well thru the post these days, as even the "no-tax for under US$50,00 gifts" law is respected here. The packages are always opened at the post office, by customs agents and they tax us based on a totally arbitrary evaluation of the item :( :(
The only thing I can think of now is to wait for someone comming to visit our beaches and to enjoy our sunny weather :)
I eventually have students comming from USA but it is not that frequent.
Maybe I should organize an eLua Workshop here one of these days :)

Is it any easier if you purchase “used” equipment via the likes of eBay?

It is russian roulette, sometimes it works, sometimes not. For me it has never worked :(

Or if hardware is (genuinely) gifted or loaned to you?

It should be free of taxes up to US$50,00, shipping included (which is ridiculous) but in practise, it all depends on the customs officer mood on the day :(
It seems to work if we complain  and open a judicial process but I still prefer to pay the taxes than to deal with lawyers.

I notice there is a far amount of used Lego Nxt equipment already available on eBay.  Or it should be possible to set up some system where donations are collected via Paypal and someone in the US or EU uses this to purchase needed equipment and send it to you by whatever route works (loan, gift, second-hand purchase, whatever). Obviously within the law, but maybe there is some way round this?

Thank you very much again, for raising all these possibilities.
We now have a way to receive official donations, from individuals and from companies, all tax-deductible but only in USA. It works thru an educational organization/foundation where PUC-Rio is a member.
I don't have all the details yet, we've just opened this door and we hope to deserve some funding so in the future we can work only in eLua. But we have a long way ahead up to the eLua version 1.0 :)

I have a brother that lives in New York (for some 23 years now) and he will come down by the end of june or before.
If we find something interesting, we could ship to his house and fill up his bags a bit.
I am specially interested in some Futurlec Stamps, that Bogdan and some other users have already but I'm not sure how efficient is their shipment to USA (took some 3 weeks to deliver in Europe).

We are also starting an eLua Stamp project, that will be discussed here with you all.
It will be an open source project too and must be easy enought to be buillt anywhere. Again, I'm sure we will have problems getting the components (we've just finished an "eLua Demo Board" for a pvt project and I had to import everything).

Thanks again for supporting eLua !
Best
Dado

 

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[jbsnyder]

On Mar 23, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Dado Sutter wrote:

Thank you very much John.
We've been getting help and support from other users but it is still hard :(
Asko Kauppi, from Finland, will send us two kits from Atmel. Bogdan will get his fairly easy but mine will have to be sent to Chamonix, France, from where I have a french friend comming down to the tropics by the end of April.
No scheme seems to work well thru the post these days, as even the "no-tax for under US$50,00 gifts" law is respected here. The packages are always opened at the post office, by customs agents and they tax us based on a totally arbitrary evaluation of the item :( :(

What about FedEx, DHL or UPS?  I assume customs is still an issue, but perhaps these commercial carriers are less problematic?  Certainly they can be rather expensive, I'm not sure how their rates might compare with post.

The only thing I can think of now is to wait for someone comming to visit our beaches and to enjoy our sunny weather :)
I eventually have students comming from USA but it is not that frequent.
Maybe I should organize an eLua Workshop here one of these days :)

I would certainly love to come to Brazil some day, and if I am ever headed there I'd be happy to bring some baggage filled with microcontrollers :-)

If there are other ways to help get hardware to Brazil or Romania, I'm up for it.

I have a brother that lives in New York (for some 23 years now) and he will come down by the end of june or before.
If we find something interesting, we could ship to his house and fill up his bags a bit.
I am specially interested in some Futurlec Stamps, that Bogdan and some other users have already but I'm not sure how efficient is their shipment to USA (took some 3 weeks to deliver in Europe).

Mine took about that long as well to get to the US.  They do have more expensive shipping options which are supposed to be faster, which might be only a week or two.

--

James Snyder

Biomedical Engineering

Northwestern University

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[Dado Sutter]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:43, James Snyder <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mar 23, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Dado Sutter wrote:

What about FedEx, DHL or UPS?  I assume customs is still an issue, but perhaps these commercial carriers are less problematic?  Certainly they can be rather expensive, I'm not sure how their rates might compare with post.

I've used UPS before, for TI samples. They did not charge us but they charged Texas Instruments and this is one of the reasons they canceled their sample program for Brasil :(  (well, they still do it for some special educational aplications but the bureaucracy is so boring that I stopped trying too).
DHL is incredibly expensive. They and FedEx seem to be checked statistically, less than the normal post but taxes are high when we're not lucky.

I would certainly love to come to Brazil some day, and if I am ever headed there I'd be happy to bring some baggage filled with microcontrollers :-)

Be my guest ! :)
And pls be sure this is not because of your baggage ! :)
 

If there are other ways to help get hardware to Brazil or Romania, I'm up for it.

Romania seems to be easier in terms of taxes but they have post problems too and few representatives. Aparently, they don't pay extra taxes to get components, which is already very good. The eLua Demo Board that we developped is a comercial disaster, if manufactured here :)  We will do some 20~25 boards for specifical needs of some projects. This whole process taught us a lot too, about what we must face to design and build a nice eLua Stamp. (are you all thinking about it already right ? :)

Mine took about that long as well to get to the US.  They do have more expensive shipping options which are supposed to be faster, which might be only a week or two.

That is good news. I should order one already, ship to my brother's house and wait for him to come down. Thanks !

For general use and eLua spreading, the eLua Stamp project will surely help a lot, as we will be able to build the boards here too and eventually offer some of them to other institutions and key developpers.
We will still need to get new kits though, to continue to port eLua to more and more platforms.

Best
Dado

--

James Snyder

Biomedical Engineering

Northwestern University

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[BogdanM]

I was wondering if there was anything some of us could do to make it easier for Dado and Bogdan to get hardware?

Thank you very much for your initiative. The situation in Romania is not as bad as it seems to be in Brasil, taxes on hardware are much lower here. But see below :)

Is it any easier if you purchase “used” equipment via the likes of eBay? Or if hardware is (genuinely) gifted or loaned to you?

eBay doesn't work so well in Romania. Or, in other words, there aren't many people that ship to Romania, basically our beautiful country thrives on hackers that constantly hack sites like eBay. We do have access to PayPal though, so we can easily do the payments. Personally, I don't even know how to use eBay, and the same goes for my friends (to give you an idea about its popularity here). About the "gift" part, I did receive hardware for which I did not have to pay any taxes, and there is a specific procedure for tax exemption accepted by our customs (sometimes :) ).

I notice there is a far amount of used Lego Nxt equipment already available on eBay.  Or it should be possible to set up some system where donations are collected via Paypal and someone in the US or EU uses this to purchase needed equipment and send it to you by whatever route works (loan, gift, second-hand purchase, whatever). Obviously within the law, but maybe there is some way round this?

Lego NXT is a special case, in that our local Lego distributors are basically a bunch of morons. I didn't really try looking for it somewhere else yet. It's entirely possible to get hardware to Romania from Asia/America, with a few constraints in mind:

- they must be willing to send to Romania (most do).
- they must have a shipping option that won't force you to pay $60 (usual rate for DHS/FedEx from US) for shipping when you're entire order is less than $30 :). And this is a bigger problem; sometimes companies are simply not willing to use regular mail or other cheaper shipping options.

Best,
Bogdan

 

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